Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject: What's going on? or Lush posts wall of text! Discussion plz
Gut Check Time
Cataclysm has now been out for just about three months. I don't think it is at all unreasonable to say that the new level cap has been hit in the shortest time and that the new end-game is a substantial step up in difficulty (and grindiness) from Wrath of the Lich King. This tier of content has also been cleared exceptionally fast by the world- and realm-firsters. I think the announcement of 4.1 and the anticipated Firelands raid was a welcome thought to those on the bleeding edge of progression. I, however, looked to it with dread. With 4.1 on the PTR, it's reasonable to think it would go live in the next six to eight weeks. That would leave just six to eight weeks to clear current content, before it is consigned to the rubbish-bin of patches.
Blizzard has given us a gift: the next tier of raiding won't be until 4.2, which seems likely to be at least three to four months out - giving rather more time for current content to remain current. What remains in the wake of this relief is a question: What will I do to capitalize on this extra time in accord with my goals and desires?
I want to at least see all the content in the current tier. I can certainly be flexible on the need to clear all the hard-modes and what-not, but I want to see it all. I cannot think that I am alone in this desire: we clearly have a good half-dozen people solidly geared for raiding. Sadly, it may not be the best arrangement of classes for the current-requirements, but content has been cleared with odder compositions.
So the question becomes "why aren't we x/12?" We've had one night - a couple of very frustrating hours - and that's been it. As far as I can see, our only raid drops have been Ncrackers in Baradin Hold! Good for him and all, but I think this is indicative of a problem. Maybe the problem is mine, and if so, then it's up to me to deal with. If the problem is bigger, then as a guild we need to address it.
For my part, I want to raid. I want to raid what is still relevant. I'm going to bet that others do too. With that goal in mind, I think there are numerous places where the StormSeekers is not doing what is needed to accomplish those goals.
1-Lack of Recruiting
It's a natural thing that the roster changes over time. For any number of reasons people adjust their playtime, or play the new MMO, or get caught up in Dragon Age 2, or are in the last couple of months before getting married - all of those things affect who is available to raid. To field a team, it is suggested that you need at least 30% more than what is required. We need three raid ready tanks, four raid ready healers, seven to ten dps members - and these days those dps almost need to be ranged (stupid encounter design to blame on that). Even to consistently be able to raid, we need a decent increase in raid-ready members.
As an added benefit, bringing in quality players often improves competition leading to better play all around (this touches on point 2).
From what I have seen, SS has traditionally been fairly laissez-faire about recruiting. In Vanilla and TBC this was a neutral effect as unguilded pick-up group members, either to fill raids or from actual pick-up groups could be recruited by jovial and successful runs. Since the LFD tool has come about, the pick-up group has become a much less-used grouping tool.
In order to raid, we will need to pick up recruiting. We can do this, and should do this, in several different ways:
A- We need a well-written, inviting forum advert. This advert should be in the WoW Argent Dawn forum, the WoW Guild Recruitment Forum, and at other reputable internet sites (e.g. Tank Spot, MMO-Champion, etc.). If there are specific forums for classes we want (e.g. Shadowpriest.com - I think that's right) then we may want to see if they have a recruitment section open as well.
B-We need to pick up group members from Argent Dawn. If we're running heroics, it is probably worth it, long-term, to pick up a 4th or 5th members from the looking for group channel (not trade, looking for group) to get to know more people on the server and get our name out there.
C-We should consider running an event of some kind to increase name recognition. SS has been around, but who the hell knows about us. We're not flavor-of-the-month. We're not hot news. Without progression under our belts, we can't be those people. We need to become known for other things, things which may fit well with the purpose of the StormSeekers.
D-The news is in: ten man raid recruiting is hard! We need to figure out what it is we offer that the twenty other ten man guilds, many of whom are x/12, are not offering. The best advice from the marketing world is "Don't be the best at what you do, be the only one doing what you do." What distinguishes us, what makes us unique?
2-Raiding is a privilege, not a right
While not everyone is guilty of this, there are some people who seem to think that being level 85 means you get to raid. While in Wrath that mentality was only slightly insane, in Cataclysm that belief is downright laughable. Raiding is an incredibly difficult task with a steep entrance cost. Raiding is not something you do, now, to gear up. It is what you do when you are geared. We shouldn't be extending invites to people who don't have the gear, or the heroic experience to sufficiently perform in a raid. We shouldn't be bringing people who are ungemmed, unenchanted, in bad specs, and who have not researched their class and the encounters. The information is so easy to find - MUCH OF IT ON THESE FORUMS! - that there is no excuse. Once the game involves others, it involves getting out of the WoW client and doing the appropriate research. Boss explanations prior to a fight should not be a complete rundown, but an administrative and organizational (and perhaps a reminder) snippet. Bottom line: raids run on the shoulders of 10/25 people - if you aren't willing to shoulder your share, don't expect to come.
I'm not talking about logging in ever day, ignoring the message of the day, and running a guild heroic. That is not guild involvement, that's playing the game. What I mean by guild involvement is active participation in the community and goals of the guild. Everyone is going to come at this differently. Some people may be well-suited to socializing, some to more factual and informational endeavors. But it is clear that Calinthor should not be the only person working to better this guild. Everyone should be. These forums should be much more active, even and especially with things like constructive criticism, well-written, researched, and linked guides on encounters, the best way to do TB dailys, cribbing EJ info in easily understandable chunks, you know, useful things. And there should be the "merely" social things: games, stories, whatev. The thing about the StormSeekers is that it is supposed to be a community of in-game friends. I am among the most guilty of ignoring that aspect - I'm not an especially social person. But if all we do is login to silent guild chat and only a few people grouping, what is the point? It has to go beyond that or we slowly wither and die.
Cal: I posted this in general because I think these are issues that the guild, as a whole, needs to be involved in and aware of. I realize that forum usage is pretty low, and I really think that should be hammered on. I think, as a group, we need a more clear delineation of goals and practices. If only to be honest with each other about what we're all doing. I know you've been at the helm of this wibbly-wobbly ship for a long time, seeing periods of smooth-sailing and times when we're taking on water. I certainly know that I haven't always been around, for a variety of reasons, so it may seem hypocritical for me to be posting some of the things above, but we all have goals in this game and I think we should all have a fair chance at fulfilling them. For that, we do need open communication and transparent policies - it's the only way we can be on the same page and truly work toward common goals. I am willing, time and circumstances permitting, to do whatever I can to help, but if my goals don't fit the guild's, then rather than change the guild, I need to deal with that change. At the heart, however, we need to be clear to each other about those goals.
On a personal note, I have enjoyed my time with SS. And, being honest, I enjoyed being able to raid seriously with Lost Legacy, but the relationships were not the same. Maybe we can't have both? I'd like to think we can.
Lushere (Tom) _________________ [Image blocked due to inappropriate content]
Joined: Aug 26, 2006 Posts: 422 Location: Maryland, USA
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject:
I have read over wall of text, as you put it, several times, and after each time I've sat down to write a reply, but didn't because my thoughts weren't organized enough. They still aren't, but I'm going to reply anyway, so....yeah.
I do agree with your points. We do need to advance. We had been progressing towards the end of LK, and were actually doing very well. Granted, the buff in ICC, the gear, and the nerfs made it easier, but still. Then Cata hit, and as the name suggests, everything fell apart. But now that things have settled down, and we have advanced our characters enough to be able to raid, it is time to get back into it.
So how to get back to where we were. Yes, having more guild members is a very good way. And yes, being prepared for the raids is also a good way. But I think the best way is your third point. Involvement.
Participation is the key, in my eyes. Both in-game and on the forums. It has been years that there are only a few of us active on these boards, and not by coincidence, those same are the main core of people that had been raiding on a regular bases. Being active on the boards, even if by just reading them, prepares people for the raids, as you mentioned, and brings a sense of community to the guild.
That I believe is what had seperated the StormSeekers from the other guilds. We are not just a group of people that play the game and sometimes do things together, or have a few laughs in g-chat. We were a community, we were a group of friends in-game, and for some even outside of the game. We knew what others were going through, both good and bad, we shared our lives with our guildmates. And we raided and did instances together.
Look, I understand not everyone is going to be social enough to share their lives with their guildmates, thats fine. Some people want to keep the game and their RL seperate, which is very understandable. But at the very least be responsive in the game. I have lost count of the number of times someone has asked in g-chat that they are going to do something, and want to see if others are interested or not, and they get no reply, or maybe one or two replies, when there are around 7 people on. If you can't go, or arent' interested, at the very least say so, don't just ignore the request. I know you might be busy, or afk, or whatever, I've been in that situation, but once you get back, maybe you should say something. Be a bit more friendly. Say hi when you log on. Say bye before logging off. Let your guildmates know if you are going to be coming back, instead of just disappearing. Those are very simple things, but they make a big difference between having a group of people that happen to play the same game at the same time and a guild.
Having active members who talk and communicate can be the answer to the other needs. If our members are active and doing thing with the guild, there is a good chance that they may bring their buddies from other guilds along. We all have friends in other guilds, be it because we were once in that guild, or they were in our guild, or whatever. I do this myself. If we are doing a 5-man, and are one or two people short, and if no one in available from the guild, I ask my friends. I know Cal does this as well, and there have been many times that we do bring a friend along. If that happens enough, they might join the guild, or at the very least our name will be passed around. "Yeah, sorry I'm busy at the moment, doing a heroic with the Stormseekers". Word of mouth will lead to increasing our numbers.
Having said that, we do also need to find other ways of getting members, no doubt about it. But if we can have our current members be more responsive and involved in the guild, it will help a lot in getting us to where we want to be, raiding and progressing. _________________ Z
Sucks things like this must be posted... I feel partly responsible being part of the core raid group... but man, this was going on before I took a break and honestly its one of the main reasons I had to take a break... I got tired of the constant brick wall being hit.
I enjoy RIFT, its really fun, but I really do miss playing with the Stormseekers, i've considered installing WoW and renewing just to raid with you guys and converse but it seems like that isnt even happening.
I really hope you guys figure something out. If all else fails, you can come join me in RIFT _________________
So last Friday at the scheduled, calendared raid time we had five people logged in. Two of whom were not ready to raid. It turns out the people have spoken. Or, not spoken, so much as stared blankly at words they didn't understand.
I guess I am the one with the problem. As I see it, that leaves me with these options:
1. Keep pushing SS to do it. Fail idea: I can't force people to want it.
2. Find another guild. Difficult idea: There is a small amount of time I want to commit to gaming, even if I might spend a lot.
3. Take my alt guild and make a go of it: Fail idea: established guilds can't recruit and it won't be remotely easy to build one from scratch.
4. Stop caring.
So, I'm not quitting WoW (now), but if I can't play the endgame, it isn't going to be more than an occasional jaunt into Azeroth.
For you all: I do have a few chaos orbs and know the patterns for the two leather belts. I have the leather to pick up two other recipes, so if anyone wants a crafted leatherworking epic, just let me know. Post on the forums or pass it through Resalia (who is loving her hunter these days) and send me the mats and I'll take care of it.
See you all around! _________________ [Image blocked due to inappropriate content]
Joined: Oct 06, 2005 Posts: 110 Location: Suffolk, VA
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:24 am Post subject:
I think there are a few of us that feel the same level of frustration with the lack of interest to do end game content. I would like to raid, but I really only want to raid with our guild.
The longer we don't continue with end game content the more people lose interest, suspend their accounts, move on to other things, leave the guild, etc.
I have got in several times on the weekends only to find 2 to 3 guidies online. If they don't need help with something, I do a few things and logoff. I just don't enjoy the game as much once my toons have reached 85 unless I am doing something with the guild.
I just go on to something else or play another game if there is no one to do something with. The real draw to WoW for me is to play with the great group of people in our guild.
On the plus side... We did have a great group on last night and did a couple of heroics. We have a good core of players we can raid with that are geared. We have a raid scheduled for Friday. It would be nice if we could get a good showing. I hope to see all of you there.
The *ONLY* reason I renewed my sub was because i'll only do endgame shiz with the Stormseekers.... And i'm hoping this friday we can make something happen. It's a shame, but I hope more people log on, the past few days since i've been back we've been really close to filling a raid with just people logged on. We seem to do real well in heroics (when im not playing my hunter hahaha) _________________
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